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▲Start all of your commands with a comma (2009)rhodesmill.org
280 points by theblazehen 3 days ago | 92 comments
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mathfailure 3 hours ago [-]
I didn't like the idea. I prefer the alternative approach: _I_ decide the order of dirs in the PATH env. If I introduce an executable with a name, that overrides a system one - I probably do that intentionally.

If I introduce an alias (like `grep='grep --binary-files=without-match --ignore-case --color=auto`) that matches the name of a system binary - I probably do that intentionally.

And if I EVER need to call grep without my alias - I just prefix it with a backslash: \grep will search with case sensitivity and no color and will scan binaries.

mid-kid 2 hours ago [-]
Either adding your script directory in front of the PATH, or creating `alias` that provide a full path to your script where a conflict exists, makes a whole lot more sense to me.

I've never had this collision problem yet, despite appending my script directory to the end, but I'll use either of the above solutions if that ever becomes a problem.

alance 2 hours ago [-]
Just on your first suggestion, this also means that if a person or process can drop a file (unknown to you) into your ~/bin/ then they can wreak havoc. Eg they can override `sudo` to capture your password, or override `rm` to send your files somewhere interesting, and so on.

Btw on the second suggestion, I think there's a command named `command` that can help with that sort of thing, avoids recursive pitfalls.

functionmouse 1 hours ago [-]
That would require someone to already want to sabotage me in particular, learn my private workflows, and also have write access to my home folder. At that point, All is Lost.

Don't tell people to sacrifice agency for apocalypse insurance that doesn't work, lol

latexr 1 hours ago [-]
If someone can drop a file in your ~/bin, they can also edit your shell’s startup files to add their malicious command.
wtetzner 34 minutes ago [-]
I think it's already game over if they have access to your home directory. They can also edit your path at that point.
znpy 1 hours ago [-]
While true, what you describe is very unlikely to happen and most definitely won’t happens on systems where i’m the only users.
CGamesPlay 1 hours ago [-]
I do this, and routinely shadow commands with my own wrappers to do things like set environment variables.

And then there’s Claude. It deletes whatever it finds at ~/.local/bin/claude, so I have to use a shell function instead to invoke the full path to my wrapper.

e1g 1 hours ago [-]
You can use an alias, which takes priority over $PATH. e.g. I have this in .zhsrc to override the "claude" executable to run it in the OS sandbox:

    alias claude="sandbox-exec -f ~/agents-jail.sb ~/.local/bin/claude --dangerously-skip-permissions"
plagiarist 46 minutes ago [-]
How does your sandbox ruleset look? I've been using containers on Linux but I don't have a solution for macOS.
pmarreck 36 minutes ago [-]
I do the same thing, but I also have a command that shows me what functions or scripts might be shadowing other scripts
112233 2 hours ago [-]
Any severe side effects so far? Have you set PATH up somehow so it is effect only on interactive prompt, and not in the launched processes?

Because I cannot imagine much 3rd party scripts working with random flags added to core tools

deredede 2 hours ago [-]
I also do this.

Random flags added to core tools are done with aliases, which do not affect the launched processes, not by shadowing them in ~/bin. Shadowing in ~/bin are for cases where a newer (compared to the system-wide version) or custom version of a tool is needed.

48 minutes ago [-]
chrisjj 2 hours ago [-]
> If I introduce an executable with a name, that overrides a system one

... and breaks existing scripts that reference the system one, right?

amszmidt 2 hours ago [-]
Not if it is an alias.
hk__2 52 minutes ago [-]
But yes if it’s another executable.
fragmede 2 hours ago [-]
curious if you're customizing anyway, why not use eg ripgrep?
wtetzner 32 minutes ago [-]
repgrep's CLI options and general behavior are different from grep. I tend to use both for different things.
2 hours ago [-]
llimllib 1 hours ago [-]
Not OP, but I use ripgrep and customize it with an alias as well, so it applies equally there
michaelcampbell 13 minutes ago [-]
Glad it worked for OP, but I've never once in 30+ years of this had a conflict that did something I didn't want. ~/bin/ is early in my PATH, and for a good reason. Things I put in there I want to take precedence, so I use this to purposely override provided bins. (Though I can only think of one time I wanted to do that, too.)
jkercher 40 minutes ago [-]
Tangentially related. Don't ever put "." in your PATH. I used to do this to avoid typing the "./" to execute something in my current directory. BAD IDEA. It can turn a typo into a fork bomb. I took down a production server trying to save typing two characters.
caeruleus 3 hours ago [-]
Prefixing commands solves the namespace problem and discoverability (at least partly). I use a slightly more sophisticated method, which helps me remember which custom utilities are available and how to use them: sd [1], a light wrapper written for zsh that, in addition to namespaces, provides autocompletion, custom help texts + some other QoL enhancements. Can definitely recommend if you're looking for something a bit more fancy.

[1] https://github.com/ianthehenry/sd

alzee 2 hours ago [-]
Using commas in filenames feels kind of weird to me, but I do use a comma as the initiator for my Bash key sequences. For example: ,, expands to $ ,h expands to --help ,v expands to --version ,s prefixes sudo

You put keyseqs in ~/.inputc, set a keyseq-timeout, and it just works.

pmarreck 20 minutes ago [-]
also. did you mean .inputrc ?
pmarreck 32 minutes ago [-]
would an alias just work in this use-case?
ljouhet 3 hours ago [-]
Most of my aliases contain `--` for the same reason, `git--progress`, `grep--rIn`, `nvidia--kill`, `ollama--restart`, `rsync--cp`, `pdf--nup`...

Easy autocomplete, I know there won't be any collision, and which command is mine.

finghin 1 hours ago [-]
Great hack!
tomcam 3 hours ago [-]

    Every tool and shell that lay in arm's reach treated the comma as a perfectly normal and unobjectionable character in a filename.
WTF. After 40 years maybe I should have figured that one out.
pm215 2 hours ago [-]
It's not a completely non special character: for instance in bash it's special inside braces in the syntax where "/{,usr/}bin" expands to "/bin /usr/bin". But the need to start that syntax with the open brace will remind you about the need to escape a literal comma there if you ever want one.
XCSme 47 minutes ago [-]
What about using the filename in arrays in bash/sh?
layer8 42 minutes ago [-]
But Bash arrays don’t use comma, what’s the problem?
XCSme 22 minutes ago [-]
Oh, that might be true, I do remember encountering some escaping issues when creating a more complex POSIX (or bash) script that involved lists and iterating through stuff.

I see Bash only uses commas in Brace expansions:

file{1,2,3}.txt # file1.txt file2.txt file3.txt

I guess it would only be a problem if you want to expand

    file,.txt   
    file,,.txt   
    file,,,.txt
XCSme 20 minutes ago [-]
Imagine seeing this code:

    echo file{",",",,",",,,"}.txt
pmarreck 29 minutes ago [-]
Have you met Bash? It’s a shrine to space-delimited everything lol
layer8 27 minutes ago [-]
I reworded my comment for clarity now.
layer8 47 minutes ago [-]
You never used CVS/RCS with its “,v” files?
mike-the-mikado 2 hours ago [-]
Until someone forces you to use a file system that cannot tolerate commas...
layer8 42 minutes ago [-]
Which file system would that be?
impoppy 2 hours ago [-]
Why so many people use ~/bin/? What’s wrong with ~/.local/bin?
kps 13 minutes ago [-]
Personally I use ~/opt//bin where ~/opt is a ‘one stop shop’ containing various things, including a symlink to ~/local and directories or symlinks for things that don't play well with others (e.g. cargo, go), and an ~/opt/prefer/bin that goes at the start of PATH containing symlinks to resolve naming conflicts.

(Anything that modifies standard behaviour is not in PATH, but instead a shell function present only in interactive shells, so as not to break scripts.)

Unix lore: Early unix had two-letter names for most common names to make them easy to type on crappy terminals, but no one* letter command names because the easier were reserved for personal use.

xorcist 5 minutes ago [-]
Why would you want to store your binaries in a hidden directory?

It kind of goes against the idea why dotfiles are dot-prefixed.

1313ed01 2 hours ago [-]
Random things are installed in ~/.local/bin. In ~/bin I have only what I put there.
pmarreck 28 minutes ago [-]
The latter is XDG.

~/bin predates it.

And of course you can use both.

dark-star 2 hours ago [-]
~/bin/ preceeds the XDG Base Directory Specification.

~/.local was only invented around 2003 and gained widespread usage maybe 15 years or so ago...

People used ~/bin already in the 90s ;-)

zhouzhao 2 hours ago [-]
Nothing. I also use `~/.local/bin/`
Dove 25 minutes ago [-]
In many contexts in which I am trying to deconflict namespaces, I use my initials. I hadn't thought about it in this particular context, though now that I do, it seems fortunate that I am ced rather than sed.
1vuio0pswjnm7 3 hours ago [-]
I use a different prefix character, e.g. "[", but I have been doing this for years

I started using a prefix because I like very short script names that are easy to type

I prefer giving scripts numbers instead of names

Something like "[number"

I use prefixes and suffixes to group related scripts together, e.g., scripts that run other scripts

I have an executable directory like ~/bin but it's not called bin. It contains 100s of short scripts

feelamee 2 hours ago [-]
do you publish dotfiles and scripts anywhere? I'm interested to see them
jph 3 hours ago [-]
Clever hack! <3 I also do namespacing yet in a different way.

I create a home directory "x" for executables that I want to manage as files, and don't want on PATH or as alias.

To run foo: ~/x/foo

For example I have GNU date as ~/x/date so it's independent of the system BSD date.

vitorsr 2 hours ago [-]
Nice although I think the ASCII comma feels wrong as part of a filename even if for purely aesthetic reasons.

If we want to stay within (lowercase) alphabetic Latin characters I think prefixing with the least common letters or bigrams that start a word (x, q, y, z, j) is best.

`y' for instance only autocompletes to `yes' and `ypdomainname' on my path.

Choosing a unique bigram is actually quite easy and a fun exercise.

And we can always use uppercase Latin letters since commands very rarely use never mind start with those.

diydsp 32 minutes ago [-]
Its some what natural to german spkrs who use a special set of double quotes to start a quote in print.
nickelpro 1 hours ago [-]
Properly manage PATH for the context you're in and this is a non-issue. This is the solution used by most programming environments these days, you don't carry around the entire npm or PyPI ecosystem all the time, only when you activate it.

Then again, I don't really believe in performing complex operations manually and directly from a shell, so I don't really understand the use-case for having many small utilities in PATH to begin with.

mromanuk 3 hours ago [-]
It’s clever, but is not aesthetic. A comma feels unnatural in the fs.
layer8 38 minutes ago [-]
So did the dot in dotfiles originally. You’ll get used to it if you want to.
mystifyingpoi 2 hours ago [-]
It doesn't have to be a literal file, it can be an alias.
dcchuck 45 minutes ago [-]
I prefer all my custom commands as 1 letter.

On my most frequently used machine/dev env this means -

e for vim

m for mise

n for pnpm

c for Claude

x for codex

dddw 35 minutes ago [-]
d for deploy to production
sevg 3 hours ago [-]
This is one of those ideas that is so simple and elegant that it makes you think “why did I never think of doing this?!”

Neat trick! I don’t think I’ll namespace everything this way, because there’s some aliases and commands I run so often that the comma would get annoying, but for other less frequently used helper scripts then this will be perfect!

bonzini 3 hours ago [-]
I do something similar with build trees, naming them +build, +cross-arm etc.

This convention was suggested by the GNU Arch version control system years ago (maybe 20??), but it's really useful for the same tab completion reason and I have kept it for almost two decades, even when I switched to git.

amszmidt 2 hours ago [-]
It was suggested by Tom Lord (RIP), who used it heavily long before he wrote GNU Arch.

File names or directories starting with a comma where considered “junk”, and ones with a plus sign I think where considered “precious”.

pjerem 3 hours ago [-]
Maybe then try ending your commands with a comma so that you don’t break first-char autocomplete !
stavros 3 hours ago [-]
But that's the killer feature for me! I always forget the little commands I've written over the years, whereas a leading comma will easily let me list them.
2 hours ago [-]
temporallobe 1 hours ago [-]
I don’t think this is a terrible idea, though stylistically it bothers me. I suppose you could simply have a prefix command router that would essentially do the same thing. I also started using “task” recently and it’s been a game changer for my CLI life.
mogoh 1 hours ago [-]
What is task?
alex-moon 1 hours ago [-]
It is like make but designed specifically for the way non-C(++) users - people like me for example adding scripts like "make run" and "make build" to my node/python/PHP/etc repos - use it. It is great! I still don't use it literally just because make is already installed on any *nix system I encounter day to day.
Tade0 2 hours ago [-]
As a non-native English speaker I just name them in my native language or using British English spelling.

I have a command named "decolour", which strips (most) ANSI escape codes. Clear as day what it does, almost nobody uses this spelling when naming commands that later land as part of a distribution.

tezza 2 hours ago [-]
This is a really good practical step if you worry about name collisions

quick, easy and consistent. entirely voluntary.

Bravo

falloutx 3 hours ago [-]
Finally a post that is relevant to what I have been looking for quite some time.

Also, kudos to keeping it so concise and to the point, thats some prime writing.

karolist 3 hours ago [-]
Interesting, though I never had enough custom scripts to justify this, I prefer oh-my-zsh plugin style short aliases instead, i.e. https://github.com/ohmyzsh/ohmyzsh/tree/master/plugins/git
dadandang 3 hours ago [-]
,Start all of your commands with a comma
zdc1 3 hours ago [-]
Should be titled Prefix your script names with a comma. Current title is a little clickbait-y through its ambiguity.
albert_e 2 hours ago [-]
Agree.

I thought the title meant I should type ,ls instead of ls.

JamesTRexx 2 hours ago [-]
,sudo make me a sammich

Like so?

skerit 2 hours ago [-]
I would have never thought of that. Funny that a comma can be used like that.

Off-topic: What the hell is that font on this website? And why does the "a" look like that?

gugod 3 hours ago [-]
I tried a variant or this idea so many years ago after I leaned git and rearranged some of my personal tools as subcommands (like git) of a single executable named "dude,"

It went weird pretty quickly...

feelamee 2 hours ago [-]
can someone explain security consideration of placing scripts into $HOME? Some time ago I moved all my scripts to /usr/local/bin, because I feel that this is better from security perspective.
layer8 34 minutes ago [-]
Someone with access to your home dir can also set your $PATH and aliases to anything they want, so I don’t see any extra security considerations here.
Galanwe 2 hours ago [-]
There are no security implications, on the contrary.

It is objectively cleaner to keep your user scripts in your home, that way they are only in _your_ PATH, whereas putting them in /usr/[local/]bin implicitly adds them to every [service] user on the machine, which I can see creating obscure undesired effets.

Not even mentioning the potential issues with packages that could override your scripts at install, unexpected shadowing of service binaries, setuid security implications, etc.

ndsipa_pomu 3 hours ago [-]
I appreciate the idea, but the comma just looks horrible to me as part of a filename. I can imagine someone unfamiliar with the naming scheme to get confused.

I'd prefer to use underscore (when writing BASH scripts, I name all my local variables starting with underscore), but a simple two or three letter prefix would also work. I don't like the idea of a punctuation prefix as punctuation usually has a specific meaning somewhere and including it as the first character in a filename looks wrong. (e.g. Comma is typically used as a list separator and it's a bit of cognitive dissonance to see it not used in that context)

layer8 31 minutes ago [-]
Underscore requires pressing Shift, however.

> I don't like the idea of a punctuation prefix as punctuation usually has a specific meaning somewhere and including it as the first character in a filename looks wrong.

So you don’t use dotfiles? ;)

ndsipa_pomu 5 minutes ago [-]
Well dotfiles demonstrate that punctuation can have a special meaning in filenames.

I'm not convinced by "quicker to type" arguments as that's rarely the bottleneck, so I'm perfectly happy with using underscores in filenames and variables. I wouldn't use underscore as the beginning character of a filename unless it had a specific meaning to me (e.g. temporary files), so I'd be more inclined to use a two or three character prefix instead.

eterps 3 hours ago [-]
I use my_ as a prefix.
ndsipa_pomu 2 hours ago [-]
I used to use "do" as a prefix e.g. "doBackup"

Nowadays, I tend to skip using a personal prefix and just try to name commands with a suitable verb in front (e.g. "backupMySQL") and ensure that there's no name collisions.

JamesTRexx 2 hours ago [-]
Whenever I see "my" as a prefix, it feels like such a childish "my first Sony" thing. I hate official sites using that.
laughing_snyder 2 hours ago [-]
> Like many Unix users, I long ago created a ~/bin/ directory in my home directory

`.local/bin` seems to be much more common in my experience for this use case. And for good reason.

Levitating 2 hours ago [-]
~/bin is actually created per default on OpenSUSE (though it's removal has been discussed several times).
zhouzhao 2 hours ago [-]
Unclutter your $HOME!
luplex 3 hours ago [-]
similarly, I start all my underscorends with an underscore
bronlund 3 hours ago [-]
This is just brilliant. Thanks.
guilherme-puida 3 hours ago [-]
(2009)
HelloUsername 3 hours ago [-]
Previous discussions:

2024: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40769362

2022: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31846902

2020: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22778988

yunohn 2 hours ago [-]
I read this blog a few years ago, and implemented it soon after with a refresh of my rc files and shortcuts. Gamechanger - has helped me every single day since. It’s easy to remember, autocompletes easily, and adds a little flair of personalization.
3 hours ago [-]
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